Probleme nach Umbau eines Orlan HV mit Flammtronik, bitte um Hilfe

Es gibt 88 Antworten in diesem Thema, welches 35.679 mal aufgerufen wurde. Der letzte Beitrag () ist von dusi.

  • Hallo,


    also ich bin Uli komme aus Sachsen und lese schon seit längerer Zeit im Forum.
    Das hat mir natürlich Mut gegeb so einen Umbau mit Lufttrennung und LC durchzuführen.
    Seit ca. 3 Jahren habe ich einen Orlan 25, welcher bis Dezember 2010 nicht umgebaut wurde.
    Im Dezember hatte ich dann umgerüstet auf Lufttrennung und LC.
    Da dies gut funktionierte dachte ich mir jetzt hol ich mir die Flammtronik.
    Vom User Rene hatte ich mir noch denn fertig gelöteten Dimmer bestellt, lief alles prima.
    Seit 3 Tagen habe ich nun umgebaut auf Flammtronik, zweiten Dimmer selbst gelötet hatte ja nun ein gute Vorlage.
    Leider habe ich bis jetzt noch keinen brauchbaren Abbrand hinbekommen.
    Die Dimmer habe ich nach der beiliegenden Anleitung eingestellt, aber es funktioniert nicht.
    Habe die Werkseinstellung genommen und die AGT auf 170°C gesetzt die AGT schießt über das Ziel heraus.
    Primärüfter dreht immer noch weiter und regelt dann irgendwann herab.
    Der Seklüfter läuft z. B. obwohl der Restsauerstoff über 6% ist. Ich bekomm es einfach nicht geregelt dass beide Lüfter im optimalen Verhältnis zueinander arbeiten und der Kessel im Bereich der eingestellten AGT läuft.
    Würde mich über eure Hilfe sehr freuen, meine Frau die meckert schon, "warum must Du den Ofen auch jetzt umbauen der lief ja".


    Übrigens ich habe schon vor drei Jahren bei Kotly gekauft, ich berichte mal darüber in dem Kotly Tread, aber vorweg es war sehr positiv.

  • Hallo Uli,
    erst mal, keine Panik!B)


    - Kannst du mal alle Parameter aufschreiben und hier posten?


    - Kannst du ein Log von einem kompletten Abbrand aufzeichnen und das hier reinstellen? Das Log musst du in ".txt"umbenennen, da das Forum keine ".log" Dateien annimmt.


    Wenn wir diese Daten haben können wir weiterhelfen, denn ins Blaue hinein Vorschläge machen hat schon bei anderen nur zu Verwirrung und Nervosität geführt.


    Sag deiner Frau, daß wir das hinbekommen. ;)


  • Hallo Uli,


    schließ mich Rene an...hab aber mal ein paar fragen:


    Ist die AGT 170° das was Du vorher auch mit nur LC hattest oder war die da anders?
    O² Gehalt = 6% war das bei nur LC auch so?
    Welche Werte hat Du in der FT als Primärstart/min. und Sek.start?


    Zu den Dimmern: bei 2V Testausgang gerade so anlaufende Lüfter?


    Sind Deine Lüfter offen oder haben die Abdeckbleche?


    Zugregler eingebaut?



    Ich frag so gerne.... :)


    Gruß Jörn

    Vigas HVS-E 40
    Flammtronik
    3600L PS
    Friwa Oventrop
    Große Brennkammer/Feuerleichtsteine(noch die erste)
    10 Loch Düsenstein ala HW55(noch die erste)

  • Hallo Jörn,


    habe die Werkseinstellung der FT genommen und nur die AGT auf 170° heraufgesetzt hatte ich vorher auch. Bei dem LC hatte ich auch 6% O² Gehalt.
    Start Sek. und Primär ist Werkseinstellung.
    Habe als Sek.Lüfter den originalen Orlan Lüfter und als Primär ein WPA 117K, da ich früher vor dem Umbau das Abdeckblech ca 4cm nur offen hatte und die Drehzahl auf 40% gedrosselt hat dies hat gereicht für Primär und Sekundärluft.
    Einen Zugregler habe ich verbaut, aber mein HV steht nur ca. 25 cm von der Wand weg, daher muste ich den Zugregler in Revisionsöffnung einbauen, welche sich in einem anderen Raum befindet, ein anderer Einbauort ist nicht möglich. Schornstein ist Edelstahl 16cm und ca. 8m hoch, mit Isolierung eingelassen in einen alten gemauerten Schornstein.


    Habe heute morgen nochmals die Dimmer getestet, also der von Rene funktioniert tadellos.
    Aber bei meinem selbstgelöteten ist wohl ein Fehler drin. Bei 0V Einstellung läuft der Lüfter an, ein kleines Stück Dimmer zurückgedreht o.k.. Aber bei 9,9V drehe ich den Poti bis die Lampe gerade brennt, Lüfter dreht hoch fast Höchstdrehzahl, danach verringert er und steigt wieder an, also ein auf und ab der Drehzahl. Hatte dies bloß immer kurz getestet, aber nie so richtig auf die Drehzahl gehört.


    Daher meine Frage an Rene, ich würde gern noch zwei Dimmer ordern, u.a. auch einen für die RLA.


    Meine Frage ans Forum, wie könnte ich den HV jetzt betreiben, übergangsweise?
    Dachte mir den Primärlüfter 100% drehen zu lassen ohne Dimmer und FT und den Sekundärlüfter geregelt über FT und Dimmer, wäre dies möglich würde der Sekundärlüfter dies trotzdem gergelt bekommen.

  • Ich lasse den Primärlüfter grundsätzlich 100% drehen,
    ob dein Sekundärlüfter dafür genug Leistung hat kann ich allerdings nicht sagen.
    Bei mir klappt es wunderbar.


    Es kommt aber auch darauf an wie stark du den kessel modifiziert hast,
    es könnte nähmlich sein daß sich möglichweise sehr hohe Abgastemperaturen einstellen.


    Bei mir allerdings mit sauberem Kessel nicht mehr als 160°, wenn sie über 180° steigen ist
    mal wieder eine Reinigung fällig.


    Gruß Andreas

  • habe jetzt das Primärgebläse direkt angeklemmt an die Netzspannung, ohne meinen gelöteten Dimmer, der Rest ist über die FT gesteuert. Zumindest ist der Abbrand besser.
    Aber warum schwankt der Sekundärlüfter so sehr?
    Anbei zwei Log.
    Terminal log file
    Date: 12.01.2011 - 11:46:34
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    T015.5 K71.7 A202 B01500 P019 O05.4 S031 R000 V10.0 P1 Z002 hier hab ich den Primärlüfter mittels Klebenand 3/4 verschlossen wegen AGT
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    T030.5 K78.3 A161 B01500 P100 O00.6 S032 R000 V06.4 P1 Z002


    -----------------------------------------------
    Date: 12.01.2011 - 12:17:30
    End log file
    Terminal log file
    Date: 12.01.2011 - 12:18:44
    -----------------------------------------------
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    T043.0 K77.8 A186 B01500 P019 O06.3 S006 R000 V09.5 P1 Z002
    T043.1 K77.8 A185 B01500 P019 O06.2 S007 R000 V09.5 P1 Z002
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    T090.6 K84.3 A212 B01500 P019 O04.7 S012 R000 V10.3 P1 Z002
    T090.7 K84.3 A212 B01500 P019 O04.8 S013 R000 V10.2 P1 Z002
    T090.8 K84.3 A212 B01500 P019 O05.1 S014 R000 V10.2 P1 Z002
    T090.9 K84.1 A213 B01500 P019 O05.5 S014 R000 V10.6 P1 Z002
    T091.0 K84.3 A213 B01500 P019 O05.9 S012 R000 V10.6 P1 Z002
    T091.1 K84.3 A212 B01500 P019 O06.4 S011 R000 V10.6 P1 Z002
    T091.2 K84.3 A212 B01500 P019 O06.9 S008 R000 V11.4 P1 Z002
    T091.3 K84.3 A211 B01500 P019 O07.2 S004 R000 V11.4 P1 Z002
    T091.4 K84.3 A212 B01500 P019 O07.4 S000 R000 V11.4 P1 Z002


    Freue mich natürlich über jede Antwort.


    Danke Uli

  • Hallo Rene,


    ja hatte ich wieder mal vergessen, anbei die Parameter welche eingestellt waren.


    AGT 180° dürfte aber für die Primälüfterdrehzahl keine Rolle spielen da dieser Lüfter direkt angeschlossen war, ohne Dimmer, demzufolge 100% Primärlüfterdrehzahl.
    O² Gehalt 6%,
    Kesseltemperatur 88°,
    Anheizen Pumpe Start bei 65°,
    Anheizen Primärluft 100% da Lüfter direkt angeschlossen,
    Mindestdrehzahl Sekundärlüfter 15%, habe aber gesehen dass dieser manchmal Stand.


    Gruß Uli

  • Hallo Uli,
    bitte, bitte die gesamte Liste wie in der Flammtronik. Alle Parameter und die Software-Version.


    Zu deinem Log: Die Abgastemperatur kann nicht nach unten gehen, wenn der Lüfter zu 100% läuft. Wie will denn die FT regeln, wenn du den Lüfter dort nicht angschlossen hast?


  • Hallo Uli,
    bei mir läuft ein 25kW Super D mit ca. 35 mm Blendenöffnung und 50% Drehzahl - das ergibt mit leichten Bremsen an der Brennkammer ungefähr 150° Abgastemperatur. Wenn du eine 6.4 er Ekostersteuerung hast, kannst du die Drehzahl mit f5 reduzieren, ansonsten hilft nur die Blende am Lüfter.

  • Hallo Uli,
    bitte, bitte die gesamte Liste wie in der Flammtronik. Alle Parameter und die Software-Version.


    Zu deinem Log: Die Abgastemperatur kann nicht nach unten gehen, wenn der Lüfter zu 100% läuft. Wie will denn die FT regeln, wenn du den Lüfter dort nicht angschlossen hast?



    Hallo René,
    bei allem Respekt vor Deinen Leistungen/Kenntnissen, aber mir sieht das eher aus wie ein Hohlbrand. Der P-Lüfter will die A-Temp. hochkriegen - kriegt es aber erst viel später wieder hoch. Schau Dir mal die O2-Werte bei den sinkenden A-Temp. von um die 140° an, die sind deutlich über 6%. Wenn dann die A-Temp. wieder steigt, sinken auch die O2-Werte und der Sek-Lüfter ist wieder gefragt - Hohlbrand ist weg.
    Hatte bei mir auch viel Hohlbrand, weil ich bis dato die Sek-Luft nur manuell ein- bzw. nachgestellt hatte. Seit ein paar Tagen regelt das ein Belimo und Hohlbrand (wie früher) ist praktisch vergessen.
    Gruss Winfried

  • Hallo,


    mein Orlan hatte noch die Ekoster 2 Regelung 3.4. geführt nach Kesseltemperatur.
    so jetzt komm noch der Rest.
    FT Version 2.81c.
    Wie schon geschrieben kann leider den Primärlüfter nicht über FT drosseln, da Dimmer mein selbst gelöteter Dimmer nicht 100% regelt.


    FT Parameter


    Primär Start 99%
    Primär min. 15%
    Sek Luft Start 15%
    Restsauerstoff 6%
    AGT 180°
    Ausbrand bei 110°
    PID nichts verändert
    Zeitkonstante AGT 10 sek.
    Kesselpumpe an bei 65°
    Pumpe aus bei 72°
    Kesseltemperatur max. 88°


    habe auch festgestellt dass der Sekundärlüfter noch ordentlich dreht über 6% O2.


    Habe mal im Bekanntenkreis herumtelfoniert, habe jemanden gefunden der mal meinen selbst gelöteten Dimmer checkt, muss ich allerdings per Post versenden, kann einige Tage dauern. Hoffe ja dass das Teil noch zu retten ist.


    Wie habt ihr Eure Dimmer eingestellt?
    Hatte bei Sek 0V RV1 so eingestellt dass der Lüfter los dreht also Lampe erlischt und bei 9,9v volle Drehzahl bei RV2 Lampe gerade voll leuchtet. und dass selbe bei dem Primärlüfter.


    Hatte schon mal was mit 2V und 8,6 Volt gelesen bzw. hatte ich auch als möglichen Hinweis erhalten


    Bin mal gespannt ob mein Bekannter etwas findet, weil ja der Lüfter auch bei voller Drehzahl also 99% mit Dimmer auf und ab schwankt.


    Gruß Uli

  • Hallo Uli,


    hier steht etwas zu den Dimmern, eine antwort von Harald(Lambdasonde) auf eine Anfrage von Rene: http://www.holzvergaser-forum.…7/&postID=39771#post39771


    Danach sind 2V am Testausgang = 0%... also Lüfterstart...wenn Du also bei Null anfängst, verschiebt sich das ganze....


    Gruß Jörn

    Vigas HVS-E 40
    Flammtronik
    3600L PS
    Friwa Oventrop
    Große Brennkammer/Feuerleichtsteine(noch die erste)
    10 Loch Düsenstein ala HW55(noch die erste)

  • Hallo Uli,
    kannst du den Primärlüfter mal wieder an die Flammtronik anschließen und dann einen Abbrand mit Log durchführen? Leider ist dein Log nicht wirklich aussagekräftig, da die Regelung den Primärlüfter nicht regeln konnte. Zum Dimmer einstellen, wenn die LED bei 0V ausgeht und bei 9,9V ganz an ist, ist das so richtig. Den Rest besorgt die Regelung.
    Dann wäre noch eine Möglichkeit einen ohmschenWiderstand an den Ausgang parallel zu den Lüftern anzuschließen in Form einer 230V Glühbirne. Das "glättet" die zerhackte Spannung etwas und bringt einen ruhigeren Lauf der Lüfter.


  • Hallo Rene


    werde erstmal meinen selbst gelöteten Dimmer prüfen lassen, danch wird er wieder angeschlossen, falls dieser funktioniert oder mein Bekannter das Teil reparieren kann.
    Möchte daher meine Bestellung bei Dir erstmal verschieben, bis der Dimmer geprüft ist.
    Sollte der Dimmer wirklich defekt sein würde ich mich nochmals bei Dir melden, könnte aber bis Mitte oder Ende nächster Woche dauern.
    Danach stelle ich nochmals ein Log ein, hoffentlich mit brauchbaren Daten.


    Erstmal Danke für die Hilfe, werde weiter berichten.


    Gruß Uli

  • Hallo,


    eigentlich sollte der Sekundärlüfter doch fröhlich vor sich hin regeln, so als wärs ein Lambdacheck. Denn der macht auch nichts anderes.
    Ich hatte das jetzt so gelesen, daß Renes Dimmer den Sekundärlüfter steuert. Ergibt das beim Sekundärlüfter an 9,9 Volt trotzdem Drehzahlschwankungen (es liest sich so) ?


    Einstweilen kannst du das zweite 12 V Relais an dem Schaltausgang links neben dem 12 V Pumpausgang der Flammtronik anschließen und die Flammtronik auf "Saugzug" stellen. Dann schaltet dieser Ausgang das Relais und damit den Primärlüfter ein, wenn die FT startet und zum Abbrandende wieder aus, ohne daß du dich um was kümmern müßtest. Für schmerzfreieres Notheizen :)

  • Hallo Spacy,


    danke für den Hinweis, werde ich heute gleich mal so anschließen.
    Hab heute meinen selbst gelöteten Dimmer zur Post geschaft, bin mal gespannt ob ich geschludert habe.


    Eine Frage hätte ich noch, der freie PT 1000 Eingang oben links neben dem Eingang für den Thermofühler, müsste doch eigentlich einen Wert anzeigen bei angeschlossenen Fühler. FT zeigt ja an Sp--,RL 61°, in der Bedienungsanleitung der FT steht zwar drin dass der Wert noch nicht in das Regelverhalten der FT einfließt, aber einen Wert müßte man doch angezeigt bekommen, oder?


    Gruß Uli

  • Hallo,


    so weiter gehts.
    Also mein Dimmerproblem ist gelöst, mein selbst gelöteter hatte einen Defekt. Darum bei Rene einen neuen bestellt, funktioniert bestens.


    Anbei einige Bilder vom Umbau, habe heute nochmals alles abgedichtet, die Risse im Beton bzw. rund um die Düse.
    Die Düse ist zwar nicht mehr die beste muss noch diese Heizsaison halten, muss danach mal HW55 fragen ob dieser welche für den Orlan Super 25 auf Lager hat, ich habe damals den Thread leider nicht weiter verfolgt.



    IMGP1243.JPG


    IMGP1244.JPG


    IMGP1245.JPG


    IMGP1246.JPG


    IMGP1247.JPG


    IMGP1248.JPG


    So HV anwerfen und mitlogen, hoffentlich geben die Daten einen Hinweis darauf was daas Problem sein könnte.


    Gruß Uli

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